HDN file: Lou Katsos
The parade every year on 5th Avenue in Manhattan, New York is one of the most important institutions of the Greek Diaspora. It is important for the unity of the Greek Diaspora, it is important for us to remember and honor the heroic Revolution of the Greeks in 1821 and it is important for everyone to remember and learn, especially in America, how important this Revolution was, not only for the Greeks but also for all humanity.
This year the parade will take place again, after a two-year hiatus due to the Covid-19 pandemic, and it is perhaps more important than any other year’s.
About these and many other things about the history and the evolution of the big parade, the successful businessman, Mr. Lou Katsos, whom we met in his offices, spoke to us. Mr. Katsos has been actively involved in these parades since he was a small child, as he tells us, and in this year's parade he is even more actively involved as he is one of the three people chosen by the Federation to help in this great endeavor with his knowledge and his ideas.
HDN file: Lou Katsos
Interview by Evageline Plakas
Mr. Katsos, how did the first parade start?
The first parade in New York, and probably the first parade in America, was in 1893 and actually took place due to the visit of Prince George who came to New York with great celebrations in 1891 and revived people not only as part of the "Greek mosaic” but also because at that time there was no Greek Church here in New York. And he suggested it. So the man who organized the parade was a guy who published the Atlantis newspaper, and it was in 1893 that he spoke to the then Mayor of New York, Thomas Gilroy, and they decided to do a parade in Lower Manhattan, on Broadway, basically because at that era that’s where the immigrant community was. On the west side of Broadway and also on the east side of Broadway. And one of the things they wanted to do was to recognize, because what is important is that many people forget, that the Greek Revolution is very important not only for the people who happen to be Greeks but also for the Americans.
How were the Greeks in America at that time?
The Greek Diaspora at that time was a little different from the Greek Diaspora today because the first people who came to New York and also to other parts of the country, were merchants, very wealthy merchants. They basically came and established their operations in Manhattan around 1840, setting up offices in South Carolina, New Orleans, Georgia Savannah and all over the South. So they were traders of various products and especially, one of the biggest products they dealt with, cotton. So these were very wealthy people, who came from very rich families, who had organized businesses both in Egypt and where today is the Turkish Republic - in the region of Izmir, etc. - they had businesses in Paris, in Russia, they were in all the major centers of the world. So they came here and basically became the main cotton merchants in the USA. And at that time, they came before the Civil War, they collaborated with the South and then during the Civil War, because the war broke out, they discovered other sources of cotton because the British basically used cotton from the South, as they all did, to power their garment factories which they ship back to the US and around the world. When the South was at war with the North, the Greek cotton merchants decided to find alternative sources of cotton and went to Egypt to find alternative sources of cotton because they had already established jobs in Egypt. This was fundamental, because what happened was that the North feared that England would take the side of the South because of the cotton trade. But because the Greeks found alternative sources of cotton for the mills of London, they remained neutral (the English). So these were the first people who came and they were again, wealthy families and many of them traders, dealing with many products. They dealt with rice, tobacco and all kinds of products, all over the world. There was the Ralli family that then became one of the richest families in the world. So there were a lot of these rich people. Those who came from the small cities of Greece, came later.
How was the first parade in 1893?
Solon Vlastos, who was the publisher of the newspaper "Atlantis" and who was also a merchant and had relations with both communities, decided to exalt the Greek Revolution not only among the Greeks but also among the American Community. Because the community was growing in terms of population. So he spoke to the Mayor and asked him if he could put the Greek flag on top of the City Hall in New York. This was in 1893. The Mayor did not have any Greek flag but Vlastos had a Greek flag and that’s how the first Greek parade took place in the USA as a parade, because there were always celebrations before, on March 25, which was a religious holiday, they always had various events here in New York. But the first real parade was in 1893. So they paraded on Broadway, Americans and Greeks together, hoisting the Greek flag at the New York City Hall, and that was the beginning. And it continued for the next few years.
How does the parade relate to July 4th and the Americans?
In 1895, something different happened because it is always in relation with other historical criteria. They combined the Greek parade with the 4th of July, when they made the Greek parade together with the 4th of July in 1895 and its symbolism was related to the connection of America with Greece and especially the Revolution. Because in the USA then there was what is called in history the "Greek fever" everywhere in America, when the Revolution broke out, they formed communities in Boston, in New York all over the country to support the Greek cause, not only to send money, clothes and so on, the Americans went and fought in the Revolution so there was this bond that was recognized in the 1890s. Which prevailed in America. It was an important case in the United States. Many people do not really know the history but it was a very important matter. So entering 1890, the Americans were as excited about the parade as the Greeks.
As you know, we started having panel discussions at Embca about the Greek Revolution a year before the 200th anniversary and these are some issues that we brought to the surface, all these different aspects. The American participation that influenced and took part in the Revolution. The things that happened in America. The Greek Revolution in relation to the Revolution here in America and the abolition of slavery. And of course intergenerational how the Greek Revolution affected the struggle for women's suffrage it received decades later.
When was the first parade on Manhattan 5th Avenue and how important is it?
What happened, the official parades we see today began in 1938 and from New York to other parts of Boston, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Chicago obviously. So it started in 1938 with the Federations that existed in the various cities and the first parade on 5th Avenue was in 1951. They got the approval to parade on 5th Avenue and since then the parade takes place there. They do not allow other parades to take place on 5th Avenue and that is why it was important, after Covid-19, that we do the parade after 2 years to parade on 5th Avenue because it is one of our grandparents’ privileges to parade on 5th Avenue. If we do not parade on 5th Avenue now, we will probably lose this privilege because it is not really easy to parade on 5th Avenue, it is an expensive situation for the city. They have to close all the roads, they have to have the police and all that. So it is a privilege to parade on 5th Avenue.
Tell us about your own experience when you first went to the parade
It was a thrilling moment when I first went to the parade. The first time I basically went to the parade was when I was a small child. It was in the 50's so it was a few years after it started on 5th Avenue. I was of course excited as a small child, we went with family, we had relatives, friends. We were in Central Park. I remember as a child climbing giant rocks, it was a fantastic time for me.
In my life, we went to the parade every year, all the Greeks went to the parade, and the Americans were excited about the parade. Everyone was waiting for this parade, it was a wonderful thing to see on 5th Avenue. Again, at that time I went to church when I was younger, I took part in the parade, I did various Olympic-type performances when I was a teenager - I was half naked as a discus thrower - and later when I got married and had children I went to the parade with my children. My children also participated in the parade and my children dressed in "Amalia" and tsoliades and paraded in the parade and that was every year. It was permanent. And then obviously when my kids grew up and had their own kids, my grandchildren were in the parades etc. So the parade here, especially for those who have been here for generations, is something that is part of the family. It has to do with our grandparents, our parents, our grandchildren so it's something wonderful.
What is different about this year's parade?
This year obviously the Covid-19 was something completely different for us. We had not faced again not to have the parade for two years. The last parade we were to have was in 2020 and I was even to co-chair it, they asked me and I said ok, but of course with the coronavirus the parades stopped. So the last parade we had was in 2019 and this year now we have the war, I will not get into this issue, but everyone understands that regardless of these issues we must unite to do the parade. So the Archbishop asked and managed to unite them all and I was invited along with the others, along with three other people beyond the Federation - John Katsimatidis, George Venizelos, who is the former director of the FBI here in New York - and I was also invited to listen and see if we can unite them all and we decided to let the members do what they did but to unite us all to do the parade because we did not want to risk losing the parade. Because of what I mentioned earlier. So in that meeting we decided what this parade will be. Obviously it is delayed due to the licenses because we did not have a license in 2021 for no other celebration than Sail to Freedom which was a different celebration, a big celebration still, a beautiful celebration, an international celebration but we wanted to go back to 200 years’ like we were used to parade on 5th Avenue.
What will be the main themes of the parade?
The themes will be for the 200 years since the Greek Revolution, for the 100 years of the Orthodox Archdiocese in America which was in 1922, the 100 years of AHEPA which was also in 1922 and, with a deviation of a few years, the 2,500 years since the battle of Thermopylae, the battle of Salamis and the battle of Plataea that finally pushed the Persians out of Greece and these issues, especially the 2,500 years and the 200 years are connected and have to do with freedom, liberation. Because 2,500 years ago we would have become slaves to the Persian Empire. 200 years ago we were slaves to the Ottoman Empire so these two fit very carefully together. So with that I asked the team, everyone recognized this, to also add the 100 years since the Burning of Smyrna. Because this happened in September 1822 and this was the final phase of the thirty years of the great genocide of the Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians. From 1894 to 1924. So I thought, and everyone recognized it and of course accepted it, to include this anniversary too which was terribly important because again it was the final phase of the genocide which wiped out 3,250,000 people.
Tell us about the connection of the parade with the Marbles of the Parthenon.
What we also decided was to unite thematically the parade with the return of the Parthenon Marbles and the reasoning behind this is related to what I said before. Because in my mind Marbles are "enslaved". They were "slaves" sold in the market. They were sold to the English. And it's time to bring them back.
For the Marbles of the Parthenon, no one uses this argument, they make the arguments that they were sold, that it was made legally, etc., and they protect the Marbles in England and if they were in Greece they would not be so protected and all but look at it a little different. See the Marbles a bit like this woman in the slave market who was sold, we have a situation where then in Greece the Marbles were sold almost as slaves and think that if someone sold someone, they have a right over this person and gave them a name. They are not the Marbles of the Parthenon. They changed the name as they changed the names of the slaves here in the United States, they called them the Elgin Marbles. Not the Marbles of the Parthenon, the Elgin Marbles. So I see this as something that has to do with different issues. Liberation, to free the slaves as with the 200 years of the Revolution, the 2,500 years that we would be enslaved by the Persians, when our Marbles were enslaved, they were sold in a slave market for a price. They went to England and then Elgin sold them. He took a stolen object, a slave, took the slave and sold it to the British Museum. When you have stolen property and it goes from the one who stole it to another that property still belongs to its original owner. Who is this original owner and where does this slave want to go? Where do they want the Parthenon Marbles to go? They want to go back to where they were born. They were born in Greece 2,500 years ago and were even rebuilt because the original Marbles of the Parthenon were burned by the Persians and the Parthenon we have now and the Marbles we have now were created after that, when we were liberated from the Persians who were in Greece for a year.
What is the connection between the Greek Revolution of 1821 and the abolition of slavery in America and the statue of the "Greek Slave"?
I mentioned before that the Greek Revolution had an impact on the Abolition of Slavery in America. And one of the things it did, they, the Americans, used the motives of the Revolution also for the Abolition of Slavery in America. They used the same arguments. So when these movements began, they used the example of the Greek Revolution and even a sculptor, Hiram Powers, created a statue called the "Greek Slave" in the 1840s. The "Greek Slave" was the most famous statue in the history of the United States at that time. Because what it portrayed was a Greek woman who was in a slave market for sale, they had killed all the men. Don’t forget what happened in the Revolution, for example in Chios, all the men were killed and all the women were sold in the slave markets. So when they showed the statue of the "Greek Slave" in America in the 1840s it was unbelievable to Americans because it was related to someone being sold in a market and they related it to what was happening in the South where they were also selling people. They thought, we supported the Greek Revolution because they were slaves to the Ottomans and we must obviously support the abolitionist movement in the United States. Using the symbol of the "Greek Slave".
How do Americans perceive this parade?
This parade unites something that is realized not only by Greeks but also by Americans and has to do with liberation.
In New York it is different than in other places because in New York we understand the link between Greece and America and their own Revolution.
And this is something I want to bring out, it's not just for the Greeks, it's a parade for all humanity, Americans, the world. They do not mention it but when the Greek Revolution broke out in 1821 there was no nation in the European Union that supported the Greek Revolution and that was because it was the post-Napoleonic period, they did not support any revolution instead they supported the Ottomans. It was only after the United States that everyone recognized that they had to support the Greek Revolution and of course we had the "rock star" Lord Byron etc who went there, died there and other foreigners who died there and gave their wealth to support the Greek cause.
Why is it important for us all to be part of this parade?
It is extremely important for all of us to be part of this particular parade. Obviously, we had not had it for two years so there is a lot of excitement and we want everyone, grandparents, parents and children to come to the parade and invite others. Again, this is not just a parade for Greeks, this is a parade for all Americans and we want to make it a parade of this kind. A parade for Freedom. Freedom here in the US, freedom in Greece, freedom around the world and also freedom for the Parthenon Marbles which, metaphorically, were sold as slaves in London and we want them to return and have the freedom they deserve so that's the meaning of this parade.
It is very important for everyone to come to this parade, it is a great parade, a wonderful parade for the Greek Community of New York, we have various thematic ideas, obviously, which are very important, the 200 years of the Greek Revolution, the 100 years of AHEPA, the 100th anniversary of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese and of course the 2,500th anniversary of the Battle of Thermopylae, the Battle of Salamis, the Battle of Plataea and also important the commemoration of the final phase of the Greek-Christian genocide in Smyrna in 1922. Having said all that, thematically again the return of the Marbles is connected with the Greek Revolution, is connected with the anniversary of 2,500 years, is connected meaningfully with all this not only for the Greeks but for all the people around the world and especially here in New York, here in America, for Greek Americans here, so let's do it! Let's do it successfully!
Watch part of the interview here:
Contributors::
Video recording: Zafeiris Haitidis Director-Filmmaker TNH Photographer
Subtitling Video: Eva Koutoumanou
Video editing:DEJA VU PICTURES
